I’ve been asked on TV hits and interviews lately to explain why decentralized social media is better, especially re: Mastodon.
How would you explain the benefits of a platform like Mastodon and the fediverse to someone in just a few sentences? How would you make the argument that platforms like Mastodon allow for more free expression than big tech controlled apps?
Would love to hear people’s thoughts! Trying to make my arguments most effective
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Mike Fraser
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Lorraine Lee likes this.
GhostOnTheHalfShell
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •The most concise way I describe the difference between commercial algorithm based platforms versus the fediverse.
In the former, you are presented with the illusion of a town square, it propagates content based on spectacle and “engagement”
In the latter, people are the algorithm as members of distinct communities, moderated by real people.
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GhostOnTheHalfShell
in reply to GhostOnTheHalfShell • • •Centralized, commercial and algorithm based platforms are centralized command and control platforms.
The fediverse is a constellation of everything from individually hosted servers to the larger instances like mastodon dot social, and everything in between.
I would ask people to consider where do you think the greater liberty resides?
We have seen the kind of censorship that emerges on all of the large commercial platforms. It’s not possible in the fediverse.
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GhostOnTheHalfShell
in reply to GhostOnTheHalfShell • • •RE: masto.ai/@GhostOnTheHalfShell/…
@taylorlorenz
Sometimes an image is worth 1000 words
GhostOnTheHalfShell
2023-07-11 19:06:27
Movie2468
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •To answer this, we should first understand why people don’t think it makes sense. Someone I know that dislikes big business, and uses X said: “I struggle to understand the basics of a decentralized social network, it seems oxymoronic except for extreme nerds”.
Take that as you will, but hopefully it is useful feedback.
GhostOnTheHalfShell
in reply to Movie2468 • • •I would like to suggest then that they struggled to understand a market based economy or democracy
Movie2468
in reply to GhostOnTheHalfShell • • •I would agree. That’s why I left the snippet about big business and the use of X. Makes no sense.
hannah aubry
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Mastodon is the anti-influence platform
On the social web we are
- free from the influence of megalomaniacs or any one person
- free from the influence of VCs and profit motivations
- free from the influence of algorithmic manipulation
Plus as a bonus, you can follow a friend's "Instagram" from your "Twitter" account ✨
#Fediverse #Mastodon #SocialWeb
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Æ.
in reply to hannah aubry • • •Lorraine Lee likes this.
hannah aubry
in reply to Æ. • • •@aesthr
I take your point, but as you say: that’s a people problem not a technology problem. that is true of people wherever they form groups, on and offline. The fediverse is different because unlike other social networking platforms, you can vote with your feet if you find yourself in a social space that doesn’t suit you anymore, by leaving and taking your followers and followings with you.
There’s certainly more we can do as a community (and as the Mastodon org) to make our technology more resilient to toxic human dynamics. One thing we want to do is make it a lot easier for anyone to host a Mastodon instance, so if you can’t find a space that suits you, you can make your own. And we’re working on that this year! Another thing we’re considering (but is not on our roadmap right now) is adding post migration, which will make it a lot easier for people to pick up and leave when a space doesn’t suit them anymore.
We’re not trying to “fix” people here, but we are trying to make technology that is resilient to our worst habits and impulses instead of actively exploiting and compounding them. How do you think we should try to address this?
Æ.
in reply to hannah aubry • • •@haubles it's true that you can move instances when you want, but that's also a very clunky process that puts a lot of people off. and then there's the whole anxiety over losing connections because of how instances are or aren't federating with each other. So I don't think "you can just move" is as simple as people often claim it is.
And it's not just an issue of having to move instances. The relationship people have with their admins can also be a very unhealthy parasocial one.
Æ.
in reply to Æ. • • •Lorraine Lee
in reply to Æ. • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •don't appeal to high mindedness
sell it
- no ads
- choose a server that fits your style, no one-size-fits-all straightjacket
- zero privacy defilement
- immunity to some racist edgelord techbro coming in, buying the thing, and turning it into bigot and ignorance paradise
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Donald Clark
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce I would add
- I only see who I explicitly follow (no feed stuffing and manipulation).
- I can migrate to a new home seamlessly with low friction
- as each server sets its own policies, there is no risk of a central, single, set of beliefs controlling everyone.
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SlightlyCyberpunk
in reply to Donald Clark • • •I think there's another side to the lack of centralized moderation too -- it removes a lot of the "too big to fail" mentality, and in doing so actually allows more moderation.
We've got Twitter over here producing and distributing CSAM, and so many people and institutions *still* won't block or remove links to Twitter purely because of its size.
So you do get more freedom here, but at the same time you get stronger and more fair regulation. Regulation designed for your community instead of for global politics. For example, I follow accounts that post pornography, which would never be allowed on corporate socials. Yet it's all hidden behind appropriate CWs and such. Meanwhile back before I left Facebook I was getting random unsolicited hardcore porn just popping up in my feed a couple times a week! They'd remove it eventually, but not before it popped up full screen while I'm standing in line at the grocery store or something...
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to SlightlyCyberpunk • • •@admin @dsc
on centralized #socialMedia, #moderation is just a cost center
why spend the money?
why squash #bigotry and #ignorance? it's a hassle
in fact, such accounts create drama, which drives eyeballs and clicks in outrage, thus increasing engagement, thus selling more ads
so they go "FrEe SpEeCh," a lying dodge
toxic as fuck. completely irresponsible
just another reason why corporate social media is and always will be rat poison and why everyone needs #mastodon
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myrmepropagandist
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •All the cool kids are already doing it and you are missing out.
Lorraine Lee likes this.
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myrmepropagandist
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Depending on the audience you could also mention the ants? Or don't it's fine.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@futurebird
ANT PROPAGANDA IS RUINING THE FEDIVERSE
😂
rk: it’s hyphen-minus actually
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Propaganta
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to rk: it’s hyphen-minus actually • • •Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce @rk @futurebird there's not only ants but literally every creature in the World (Fedi is particularly good for those interested in nature)
I've seen folk send pictures of lions etc that are sleeping in the main road (so everyone has to slow down and stop for them) as they live in countries where these are native, as well as just about every type of bug / snake / spider (folk do at least generally use CWs for those so others aren't scared if they have phobias), and nature scientists often post free links to whole full colour books of various creatures (I got one of all the snakes in Malaysia a few months back)
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Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •you just hit upon *the* one, absolutely compelling selling point for mastodon:
"we have cat pictures"
boom, 1 million new sign ups
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 reshared this.
Golden Bunny of Destiny 🕯🇺🇦🇵🇸
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to Golden Bunny of Destiny 🕯🇺🇦🇵🇸 • • •@davew
have you seen our cat pictures?
no finer cat pictures
Lorraine Lee
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 likes this.
GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •I'm only here for the cat pictures. And for the pindakaas.
@vfrmedia @rk @futurebird @taylorlorenz
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺 • • •One of us, one of us!
JackMex
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •This is a commercial!
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to JackMex • • •@JackMexa4 @futurebird
i could totally see a "denizens of mastodon" campaign featuring prominent accounts
like, futurebird discussing some of her posts in the context of her ants
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Unbro
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Unbro • • •@rancoisse @benroyce @midsomerplots
I'm still so upset about that. Imagine if I used YOU as a yogurt starter.
Unbro
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@futurebird @rancoisse @midsomerplots
formic acid is a cheap industrial product
leave the ants alone
rk: it’s hyphen-minus actually
in reply to Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩 • • •@benroyce @futurebird @rancoisse @midsomerplots
Anteaters (at least some of them) don’t produce stomach acid, they use the formic acid from the ants they eat.
That’s something I learned recently.
Michael Gemar
in reply to Unbro • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Michael Gemar • • •@michaelgemar @rancoisse @benroyce @midsomerplots
flipboard.com/@npr/science-uk3…
Flipboard: Your Social Magazine
FlipboardCarolyn
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Mastodon Migration
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@futurebird @benroyce
Ants are a big selling point.
Don't forget ants 🐜 .
Louise Auerhahn 🏳️🌈
in reply to Mastodon Migration • • •reshared this
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Mastodon Migration
in reply to Louise Auerhahn 🏳️🌈 • • •Don't tell then about all the cats. Let's keep that a surprise.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩
Unknown parent • • •@nikatjef
yes but there's a big difference between pesky reply guy bigots and ignorants, and a bigoted ignorant edgelord running the joint (elon)
Matthias Rex 🦣
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Lorraine Lee likes this.
Lorraine Lee reshared this.
myrmepropagandist
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •There are no ads.
There are no bots*
There is no secret algorithm controlled by strange billionaires and/or creeps trying to push agendas**
It's really fun and interactive and you meet great people, real individual people.
*Ya'll are such nerds you are going to bring up the good bots that we made and like, but you know exactly what I mean by this.
**ant propaganda doesn't count I'm not that rich either
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Stumpy The Mutt
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •I get why they call it a "decentralized network" but that description was kind of a turn off for me before I came here because I thought you were trapped in a little server with a few dozen people and what's the point of that?
The power is decentralized but the communication need not be. You can talk to anyone from any community. You can have all of those fun instances of cross pollination when different communities intersect.
The more the fedi grows the better this gets.
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Ben Lubar (any pronouns)
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Lien Rag
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@futurebird
Apparently the mastodon team at FOSDEM had a really killer slogan for promoting the Fediverse : "My friends are not for sale".
Mic drop, really - what more is there to say ?
(though, depending on the audience, "Seize the memes of production, join the fediverse !" can land well too)
@taylorlorenz
utopiArte
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •offtopic @myrmepropagandist
Or most of us are at least muted by @Taylor Lorenz, or mastodon is broken, or on her page on mastodon.social only show up the replies by people she follows.
myrmepropagandist
in reply to utopiArte • • •@utopiarte
How do you know that? Seems like her loss if true.
utopiArte
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@myrmepropagandist
Visiting her toot on mastodon.social itself, there are quiet a few answeres visible.
If I remember well, the comments by this profile still showed up in her last toot a few days ago that mentioned tictoc.
(perhaps I shouldn't have pointed out indirectly to another commenter that she never answeres to anyone)
The comment by this profile, including some mindmaps about the fedi, was shared by another profile located on mastodon.social, so in any case I guess it's only muted by her. I suppose blocks wouldn't federate at all.
myrmepropagandist
in reply to utopiArte • • •@utopiarte
She's a pretty popular journalist who is at least interested in this place.
Eventually if someone never seems to comment people stop paying attention to them, well at least I do.
mcc
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Davey
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •some points
You aren't being manipulated by the platform or coerced into impulsive behaviour, although you can still trap yourself into it.
It's often a bit of a mess but it's "our mess", the sense of ownership has some legitimacy.
It only dies when people don't want it any more, not when investors want their payday.
The "low virality" means anyone is as big a deal as anyone else.
It's slower, but it's also more relaxed.
Being bad for marketing has its upside.
Tim Chambers
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Mastodon Migration reshared this.
Pete
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Rob Ricci
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Lyle Solla-Yates
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Ben
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Lorraine Lee
in reply to Ben • •Trish Roberts
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Lorraine Lee likes this.
stux⚡️
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Let me give this a try from a non-admin perspective.. 🤔
The Fediverse is a place on the internet where you can still meet interesting people from all over the world. Instead of uploading your contacts and following the same people over and over, on the Fediverse you discover new interests, info, help and support and everything you need in a HUMAN social network!
Sorry if it's a little long but im sure you can make something out of it! 💕
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Stefan Bohacek
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •I just think it's great that you can get together with a few of your friends and run a Mastodon server for a few bucks a month.
Together, you are an independent entity, you set your own rules, but you are also part of something bigger, you can connect with many communities and individuals that the fediverse is made up of.
And that is pretty neat.
Lorraine Lee likes this.
Peter Brown
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Other platforms thrive on conflict. Mastodon does not because people do not like it and it’s people who drive Mastodon timelines, not algorithms.
YourShadowDani
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •On decentralized social media (like Mastodon) there's no Algorithm making sure you see the optimal toxic engagement bait.
All you get for posts is do people like it recently?
Its like the good old days before big tech had their Algorithms dialed in to make you as addicted as possible.
Mastodon
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Katrina Katrinka
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •It might be useful to reference the recent news on censorship on TikTok and BlueSky and Threads and Instagram.
I like my instance's rules, but if they ever change, I can keep my name and followers and just switch instances to one where I can continue as I have been. I don't have to worry about who owns the gated garden I'm allowed to interact in or how they feel about our demented dictator's whims from minute to minute.
It's more stable. It's also more international. I know what other people think around the world.
David J. Atkinson
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Mastodon Migration
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •HeliosPi reshared this.
Wulfy—Speaker to the machines
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Why not corporate #socialmedia?
1. Algorithm - pushes specific ideology, causes depression in young adults, distorts reality.
2. Owners propagandise their ideology (see above)
3. Certain voices are censored, just like in communist China. YouTube kicked off Aljazera news. TikTok US censors anti-#ICE sentiment, anti-genocide voices.
4. At election time, owners and the wealthy change the outcome of actual elections with social media.
If you haven't seen the outstanding #fediverse promo video by @_elena (4m)
Highly recommend it;
peertube.c44.com.au/w/tiwUDBzd…
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Tamtam
in reply to Wulfy—Speaker to the machines • • •Wulfy—Speaker to the machines
in reply to Tamtam • • •@_elena @Tamtam
Sorry, shitty hosting, I'll get one from YouTube(!)
But only that's because I'm too sloppy to find other fediverse posts...
... Thanks for the feedback though, C44 peertube is running on a bottom tier VPS, it's an experiment
m.youtube.com/watch?v=YRJHIJy5…
Introducing the Fediverse: a New Era of Social Media
YouTubeLorraine Lee
in reply to Wulfy—Speaker to the machines • •Wulfy—Speaker to the machines likes this.
Tamtam
in reply to Lorraine Lee • • •Tamtam
in reply to Wulfy—Speaker to the machines • • •Is it possible to make a living off of peertube? does anyone know anyone who does is? Like offering services on patreon and solely getting their audience from the fediverse, never posting on YT??
M.S. Bellows, Jr.
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •I compare Mastodon to email: no one can force you to watch ads before reading your email. No one can buy emails.com and make it so everyone only gets Nazi emails. Why? Because email is just a protocol. No one owns email, and there are thousands and thousands of servers.
Mastodon is like email for social media.
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Joe
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Diana Barbosa 🇺🇦🇵🇸
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •I have the feeling I'm not persuasive enough, so I would love to hear other strategies.
myrmepropagandist
in reply to Diana Barbosa 🇺🇦🇵🇸 • • •@diraquel
Yeah I low key hate the chronological feed. I wish I could customize it more and design my own algorithm so I didn't miss posts from people who don't post frequently, for example.
I will take it over an algorithm I can't control, however.
The big sell for me is no ads, including fake bot accounts that are just selling something or pushing something. Getting out from the bubble of influence of the worse people in the world.
Julia
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Aaron
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •JL Johnson
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Brett
in reply to JL Johnson • • •@User47
This could work.
But I feel like in a lot of ways people only view the internet as some mishmash of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Netflix, and their banking app.
If you take away the algorithm shoving content down their throat they are TOTALLY LOST because they've literally never had to seek out things on their own that interest them on the internet before.
Those people are sadly never going to find a home on Mastodon as it currently operates. They physically don't have the pathways in their brain or a good enough understanding of what the internet is and how it works to "get" what Mastodon is offering.
Limnetic Villains
in reply to Brett • • •LillyLyle/Count Melancholia
in reply to JL Johnson • • •Reinhard Lackner
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •The strongest pitch isn't "more free speech." It's "you get to choose who sets the rules." That's the real difference.
On Twitter, one guy decides what flies. On Mastodon, you pick your community or run your own server. Don't like the moderation? Move to another instance and keep your connections. Nobody pulls the rug out from under you.
The email analogy works best on TV: imagine if email only worked on Gmail and Google could nuke your account tomorrow with no appeal. That's centralized social media. The fediverse works like email already does. Pick any provider, talk to everyone. People live with a successful federated system every day without thinking about it.
No algorithm deciding what you see to maximize engagement. No ad machine that needs you angry to make money. Your feed is chronological, your data stays yours.
Honest caveat though: the "free expression" angle can backfire. Each instance has its own rules, and instances can cut each other off. Some corners of the fediverse are stricter than Twitter ever was. The difference is those rules are community-chosen, not handed down by a trust & safety team optimizing for advertiser comfort. That distinction matters, but it's not "anything goes" and pretending otherwise loses credibility fast.
If I had 30 seconds on TV I'd say: "The internet was designed so nobody owns it. Social media broke that promise. The fediverse fixes it. Pick your server like you pick your email provider, talk to the whole network, and if you don't like the house rules, you move. You don't lose everything."
Zumbador
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •decentralised social media is just the online equivalent of how people socialised offline.
It's like chatting with friends without being constantly interrupted by a salesperson trying to sell you something.
It's like being able to hang out a a party and choose who you spend time with, instead of the host constantly grabbing you by the arm, dragging you away from the person you were talking to and saying "here's a person you should be speaking to". And introducing you to some random person who immediately starts telling you everything that's wrong with your eating habits, your relationships, and your pets.
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Tamtam
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •Open source is our only chance at keeping a democratic society.
brib
in reply to Taylor Lorenz • • •In theweeklymiscellaneous.co.uk/p… I end up describing it as:
(1/2)
The Weekly Miscellaneous - An Autistic Person's Guide to Mastodon
The Weekly Miscellaneous